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August 12, 2007


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phil summers

Dear Jake,

I had a good look at this 1938 campsite area in recent days and I for one thank you for airing it.
Most illuminating (even if the weather wasn't).

I'm struck by how exposed the terrain is up there and well understand the problems Shipton & Smythe and Tilman & Lloyd had up there.

Having read 'Everest 1938' by Tilman last year, I was fascinated to read his account of how LLoyd was able to reach '38 Camp VI 1/2 and hour before Tilman, with and without o2 respectively.
Comparison with M&I revealed
LLoyd had the speed to reach
'38 Camp VI and erect the meade tent before Tilman arrived.
LLoyds o2 kit was heavier than the Irvine MK V kit and yet from '38 Camp V he climbed at a rate of about 350 vert feet hour CF Tilman
311 vert ft/hr.
They departed Camp V at 25800ft just after 8.00am and LLoyd reached 27,200 ft < 4 hours with Tilman arriving at 12.30pm with his lower climb rate.
I plotted Lloyds climb rate and compared it to the point when he was parallel to M&I '24 camp VI.
It indicates Lloyd passed 26,700 ft about 2.5 hours after starting (thats about 10.30am) and from there reached 27,200 ft about 1.5 hours later using heavier kit too!.

I believe there are lessons for us here in determining M&I climb rate out of '24 Camp VI with lighter o2 and perhaps more of a 'spring in their fresher step' compared to Lloyds heavier kit and more fatigue after 2.5h or climbing.

I tend to think M&I went up skyline to the ridge close to the T&L route so to catch the suns warmth as early as possible and then ridge hopped in the sun having gotten the steeper climbing over early on.
Less time in the shadowy YB eh!.
Thus I'm very interested in the '38 route as I suspect M&I went close by this area.
If 350 vert feet/hr was matched, then M&I would have reached '38 Camp VI site after 1.5 hours (but thats assuming 2.2L/min rate like LLoyd's.
This would still leave just over 2.1h of o2 left to climb the remaining 600 ft to reqch the #9 o2 cylinder at about 27,800 ft.
At a rate of 350 vert/ft/hr, this is quite likely and allowing for the greater speed on the 'flats of the ridge crest leading from the 'twin crags' to the #9 cylinder site.
Very nice.
Thus I think this '38 campsite area is most interesting.
I'm keen to learn more of the Longland route or access routes up from '38 Camp VI to the ridgecrest.
I suspect M&I went that way.
NO cylinders will be found in this area as its too early in the climb, but I wonder about discarded tins of lollies, mintcake etc.

You never know.....
Thanks again Jake for airing this material.
Good health to you,

ant elliston

hi.. just looking through your video.. great that you put this on the net.. just a note.. i know the sound track repeats it self.. but one of the things you picked up and described as something to do with the oxygen kit.. it to me looks like the tool you use to remove the nozle of the old primus/optimus stoves.. important kit in those days as the fuel they used was often locally obtained.. and sooty, so blocked the jets of the cookers often, without heat for water they would be stuffed..
anyway great website.. wish the video was abit clearer!

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